Rule queries and General observations

A forum for discussing items specifically related to the rules
Panzer_nut
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:24 pm

Rule queries and General observations

Postby Panzer_nut » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi,
I am new on here and after several attempts over the last three days I managed to get on here. Been playing Swordpoint or should I say Sorepoint for the last few months and I am finding the rules Very hard going ( I thought Flames of war was bad enough, its a walk in the park compared to these). Firstly my observation is that the rules are poorly written, in that it seems that they are written by someone who knows the Rules inside out but forgets that new people do not. Rules are disjointed, contradictory, and vague and hard to find.

For example the Drilled Rules, first three paragraphs, contradict each other, or are not written clearly. You should not have to read several different sections flicking back and forth through the book to find a rule.

This said I am playing the game. Now for the questions:

1. 5 Enemy units charge in Battle line Charge your Battle line. He gets 5 Momentum, can only use 3 in the combat. His opponent beats all 5 and pushes them back 4". Receives only 2 Momentum for the entire combat????

2. Opponents Skirmishers behind a formed units that are pushed back into them, force the unit to flee if gap/destroyed if non!!!?? Skirmish cavalry can get behind too easily

3. EIR: No Heavy Armour option for the Legions???!?, Auxiliary infantry do not get Large shield !!???! The Auxiliary Shield were the same size as the Legionaries Shield.

4. EIR: Centurions Vs Legates: What do Centurions do? If Legate can only lead a Legionary unit, but says your unit can be lead by a Centurion?? please clarify, explain leading.

5. 6 Skirmish Cavalry in 1 base wide 6 deep get to fire with 6 dice?? whist skirmish inf in same formation get 2, Overpowered for formation

6. Drilled troops charged in flank or rear should have the option to turn to face the enemy if enemies charge is over say 2" for Inf, 9" for cav?

7. Unit charged in flank wins combat forces enemy to fall back, how do they follow up? maybe allow them to turn to face.

8. Unit fighting to flank should have option to change facing if win a combat.

9. Skirmishers block Formed troops from advancing if within 1", found a situation that prevented a formed unit from advancing due to skirmishers being 1" away, yet the unit could not charge them. Maybe Skirmishers should fall back from advancing Formed troops, Hey wait Ludicrous, you cant advance your legion of 500 highly trained men because those 6 skirmishers are blocking your way.

10. Drilled troops: unit is 6 bases, 2 ranks or 3 turn to flank now is unformed due to it being 2 bases wide ???!?

11. 2 units in battle line charge 2 enemy units not in battle line, one takes 6 casualties, causing 3 and the other unit causes 5 taking 1. is that 2 separate combats with the loosing unit getting the benefit of the unit next to it for results purposes.

12. Cataphracts with 2+ save. 4 bases of Cataphacts can hold up a 6 base legion for indefinitely for 1/2 the points. Maybe there should be a prolonged combat modifier for troops in very heavy armour due to fatigue??

13. Skirmishers firing into combat: should only fire into bases that are not in base to base combat. Situation arose where my oppo fired into a combat and all he could see was a 1/2 cm of a unit with his skirmish column of horse archers, lost 2 bases to archery.

14. drilled troops rules, first 3 paragraphs contradict each other, either they turn for free or it costs a 1/4 or 1/2 which is it? perhaps a comma is in the wrong place.

15. QRS is in wrong place should have been in the back of the book or supplied on card like most other games used to, I think people are forgetting how useful these were.

Okay enough bashing..lets play
Jon :D

MartinG
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Rule queries and General observations

Postby MartinG » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:20 pm

Well, there do seem to be some questions in amongst the criticisms and I will try to answer these where I can.
Remember for a single large combat to occur there must be units that are fighting (overlapping) two or more enemy units, without these "bridges" you just have a series of individual combats. In all such cases the losing unit gets the benefit of any "supports" that are in line of battle with it.
A unit charged in flank which wins combat does not follow up, it just thanks its Gods.
I can't think of an instance where formed troops cannot charge skirmishers so would need more explanation to comment.
Skirmishers can only fire into the second row of bases of an engaged enemy unit.
There is nothing contradictory in the Drilled rule. Such troops are able to turn to flank, taking a quarter, as part of their normal move. Before such move begins, they can about face or change formation for free. So a six base unit in two rows would start by dropping into three rows for no cost before movement starts, then take a quarter of their move to turn to flank three bases wide.
See the online errata for centurions and legates.
The QRS is an online resource to reduce the cost of the rule book.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

Panzer_nut
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:24 pm

Re: Rule queries and General observations

Postby Panzer_nut » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Thanks for the reply Martin,
looks like we have been doing quite a few things wrong, and here's us thinking we have just about got our heads around the rules :shock: . Skirmish shooting into melees for one. Where as the Battle line is concerned looks like we totally misunderstood the diagrams and explanations and treated every combat that had a supporting unit in combat with separate units :shock: (ie.Lined up perfectly with each opponent but within 1" of the next) as a Battle line. No wonder I never got any Momentum for my push backs...lol
We had a unit that could not either move forward or charge due to a skirmish unit blocking its path by about 1" (the unit was just outside the 45 degree from the centre rule) so it prevented a formed unit from a: charging the guy in front or b: charging the skirmishers as it could not make contact with its centre of the unit.
I do not have my rule book with me (locked in a mates house and he's on Holiday) but we read the first three paragraphs or bullet points of the drilled rules for about 15 minutes debating what it actual was supposed to mean and it was seemingly contradicting itself, in that in the first it said it cost 1/4/1/2 to change face then says change face , and ranks for free below it?
I have seen the online errata re the Legates and I am still confused about the Centurions? are you saying I can add a centurion to a legion as well as having it lead by a legate??
Ok on the QRS but as I said putting it in the back pages would have been better.

Something that we also can not work out: A unit of 4 bases in 2 ranks, or even 5 base, de we assume that the unit covers a rectangle footprint the same as a unit with full ranks? or can a unit move over the diagonal part of the units footprint where there is no base?

I will try and do some diagrams to explain myself better.
Thanks
Jon ;)

MartinG
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Rule queries and General observations

Postby MartinG » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:11 am

Hi Hon,
Ok I understand what you are saying about the skirmishers. Remember close fighting infantry are not the best choice to drive off skirmishers, cavalry or your own skirmishers should perform this task for you.
There is a difference between turning to flank (change face) and turning to rear (about face)
Only one commander figure can join a unit.
If a unit has a base missing from its rear row, then you always assume the full rectangle is occupied for purposes such as moving, charging, shooting etc.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

DennisW
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Rule queries and General observations

Postby DennisW » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:44 pm

Hello Martin

with regards to being drilled, can they do all those options simultaneously? for example,turn to flank and also change formation before moving?

thanks
Dennis

MartinG
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Rule queries and General observations

Postby MartinG » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Change formation takes place before movement for drilled troops, turning to flank is part of movement.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"


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