Reduced movement for closed order

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lero
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Paris

Reduced movement for closed order

Postby lero » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:03 pm

Hello,

We made a special interpretation of the rules that should be apply for our french tournament :

We just add "formed" to unit that can slow close order.

Even if this is not the exact wording, we consider that we follow the spirit of the rule as close order have no reason to slow their movement when there is some unformed or skirmish units because they can't attack them anyway.

This give a little more mobility for close order, we know.

We wait for your comments before setting the final player pack for the french tournament (Mass Uprising, june 2-3).

Best regards,

Lero/Bruno

MartinG
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Reduced movement for closed order

Postby MartinG » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:53 pm

Well of course as tournament organisers you are entitled to use any special rules you wish. However the intention of the rules is very much that skirmishers DO slow down close order troops, since them represent a threat.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

mumakil666
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: Reduced movement for closed order

Postby mumakil666 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:47 pm

I am following the proposal to reduce the nuisance of non-formed units with regard to the movement penalty for close order units.

I think that if the idea may seem interesting it poses problem for at least 2 reasons:

1-historically first. The role of light troops is very special since they are both useless and indispensable. Useless indeed because they are threatened by other light troops and medium or heavy cavalry. In fact, after the exchanges of projectiles without much consequence, the light troops retreated behind the heavy or medium troops and the "serious" battle began. Indispensable because not to have could in the order of battle present a major risk for the army which was deprived of it. The example of Crassus at Carrhes is well known even it opposes an army of infantrymen (mainly) to an army of light and heavy cavalry, but the example of Sphacteria is on the other hand much more speaking since the Spartans capitulate because of the harassment light troops. They could not engage the fight and fell back under a hail of projectiles. These two examples illustrate the importance of light troops for those who do not have them. Swordpoint makes this very historical. Light troops does not represent a real direct threat. On the other hand to be dispossessed committed to the adverse game (delayed troops - threats on the flanks or back - continuous harassment).

2- Playfully then. Swordpoint represents the role of the different troops operating on the battlefield. The modification induced by this proposal leads to cancel the main role of the light troops. If this were to be, then it becomes globally useless to play except anecdotally. This also induces an indirect effect which is to allow the close order to charge light troops to 8 ps while this charging distance should be 4 ps. The role of the medium troops (peltastes, open order warbands) is then diminished because the heavy troops do as well as they in their role of hunting light troops. Personally, I'm currently playing a Pyrrhic list with a few light troops. If the light infantry is still quite easy to handle, it is not the same for the light cavalry which is very easily countered by the opposing cavalry. This is obviously due to the range of charge and evade (16 ps for the cavalry and between 4 and 8 ps for the infantry in charge and 3D6 or 2D6 for evasion according to the initial movement). Indeed, it is enough for a cavalry to come to be positioned at 1 ps of a light cavalry that has moved beforehand to annihilate it for sure (16 ps for charge and 3D6 + 1 ps for the evasion : good luck !!!). Of course, it is easy enough to hunt down the opponent light infantry with a medium cavalry for similar results. In mind, that the destruction of a light troop still brings 5 tokens (from memory, 1 for winning the round of combat , 2 to reduce the unit to half force and finally 2 to destroy the unit). It is a good bonus for the opponent. If the light troops have not in addition their role of retarder (harassment could say), it seems useless.
But it’s just my position

Mumak

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lero
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Location: Paris

Re: Reduced movement for closed order

Postby lero » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 am

Hello,
Thank you for your commentaries. So we go back to the rules in its exact wording.
Close Order will be slowed by Skirmishers and non-formes troops, OK !
Lero


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