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Later Italian City States

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:17 pm
by Xarepunk
I have been tinkering with the Later Italian City States Army List and some questions arose:

1. Where is the inclusion of the famous Carrocios? Maybe they could give a cohesion bonus and/or provide a defensive platform for missile troops?

2. Perry produce nice Italian Heavy Infantry with Halberds and large shields. These could serve as Provisionati with halberds and heavy armour, but what about the shields? Of course, they would not be able to use them in melee, but strapped on the back these could serve as missile protection similar to paveses. How could this be represented points-wise in the Army List?

3. Perry (again) makes Italian Mercenary Archers (intended for Balkan Archers in Venetian service). There is no representation of these in the list. The Neapolitan Longbow Militia won't fit, as the models clearly do not have longbows and (as mentioned) are intended for Venice. An additional upgrade for the Light Infantry, resembling Albanian Archers, might suffice here, e.g. have bow and become Inferior Fighters (+1 point). May have Light Armour (+2).

4. Medieval Albania can have Venetian allies, but Venice not Albanian allies? Yes, the Stradioti and Balkan Cavalry are already included and the proposed Archer option might solve this. But just out of curiosity, WHY?

Re: Later Italian City States

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:27 am
by MartinG
Hi,

Thanks for your suggestions, I will have a look at them as soon as I get a chance. The army list is done as it is to bring the Albanian troops within the constraints of the list composition rules rather than the more free-form allies choices.

Re: Later Italian City States

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:16 pm
by Xarepunk
Thanks, I would really appreciate you considering my suggestions.

The remark with the Allies is not that much of a concern, I was just wondering about it while reading.

The Heavy Infantry with shields and especially the foot bowmen are of more importance to me, as I own these nice models from Perry and (of course) want to use them. You got the models and the historical reference, so why not make rules for them?
The same goes for Carrocios, as they are very iconic and just awesome to look at.

Re: Later Italian City States

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm
by MartinG
I have amended the list in the online errata as follows:
The Provsionati description should read: "Provisionati have light armour, spear and large shield. May have heavy armour (+2). May exchange spear for halberd (+2) or exchange spear and shield for halberd (free) or pike (-1, become Massed Pike)". At the foot of the Militia description (after the Neapolitan option) add "In a Venetian army, the spear and large shield can be exchanged for bow (-3). The troops become Inferior Fighters in Open Order as Albanian mercenaries. These may have light armour (+2)".
I would have thought the carrocio more relevant to the Early Italian States list in the Dark Age supplement, as they seem to be going out of use in the early 14th century when our list starts.

Re: Later Italian City States

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:19 pm
by Xarepunk
Thank you very, very much for the amendments.
I think these are really good solutions to field the nice Perry miniatures and encorporate the historic armies.

Concercing the Carroccio, you might be right. I found the latest mention in 1325 at the Battle of Altopascio and a general decline of its usage during the early 14th century. I didn't know there is an Early Italian City States list in the Dark Ages book, might be a reason to buy this one too^^