Later Italian City States

Xarepunk
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Later Italian City States

Postby Xarepunk » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:17 pm

I have been tinkering with the Later Italian City States Army List and some questions arose:

1. Where is the inclusion of the famous Carrocios? Maybe they could give a cohesion bonus and/or provide a defensive platform for missile troops?

2. Perry produce nice Italian Heavy Infantry with Halberds and large shields. These could serve as Provisionati with halberds and heavy armour, but what about the shields? Of course, they would not be able to use them in melee, but strapped on the back these could serve as missile protection similar to paveses. How could this be represented points-wise in the Army List?

3. Perry (again) makes Italian Mercenary Archers (intended for Balkan Archers in Venetian service). There is no representation of these in the list. The Neapolitan Longbow Militia won't fit, as the models clearly do not have longbows and (as mentioned) are intended for Venice. An additional upgrade for the Light Infantry, resembling Albanian Archers, might suffice here, e.g. have bow and become Inferior Fighters (+1 point). May have Light Armour (+2).

4. Medieval Albania can have Venetian allies, but Venice not Albanian allies? Yes, the Stradioti and Balkan Cavalry are already included and the proposed Archer option might solve this. But just out of curiosity, WHY?

MartinG
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby MartinG » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:27 am

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestions, I will have a look at them as soon as I get a chance. The army list is done as it is to bring the Albanian troops within the constraints of the list composition rules rather than the more free-form allies choices.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

Xarepunk
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby Xarepunk » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:16 pm

Thanks, I would really appreciate you considering my suggestions.

The remark with the Allies is not that much of a concern, I was just wondering about it while reading.

The Heavy Infantry with shields and especially the foot bowmen are of more importance to me, as I own these nice models from Perry and (of course) want to use them. You got the models and the historical reference, so why not make rules for them?
The same goes for Carrocios, as they are very iconic and just awesome to look at.

MartinG
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby MartinG » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm

I have amended the list in the online errata as follows:
The Provsionati description should read: "Provisionati have light armour, spear and large shield. May have heavy armour (+2). May exchange spear for halberd (+2) or exchange spear and shield for halberd (free) or pike (-1, become Massed Pike)". At the foot of the Militia description (after the Neapolitan option) add "In a Venetian army, the spear and large shield can be exchanged for bow (-3). The troops become Inferior Fighters in Open Order as Albanian mercenaries. These may have light armour (+2)".
I would have thought the carrocio more relevant to the Early Italian States list in the Dark Age supplement, as they seem to be going out of use in the early 14th century when our list starts.
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

Xarepunk
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby Xarepunk » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:19 pm

Thank you very, very much for the amendments.
I think these are really good solutions to field the nice Perry miniatures and encorporate the historic armies.

Concercing the Carroccio, you might be right. I found the latest mention in 1325 at the Battle of Altopascio and a general decline of its usage during the early 14th century. I didn't know there is an Early Italian City States list in the Dark Ages book, might be a reason to buy this one too^^

Xarepunk
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby Xarepunk » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:08 pm

I am thinking about building a late Milanese Army in the future, so I studied the army list. From what I read, Milan seems to be the by far weakest of the Italian states as they are lacking options. Apart from the Famiglia Ducale (Italian Knights with veteran), which aren't that special compared to Mercenary knights, they got nothing... There's no special infantry (as for all the other states) and Milan is the only army without access to Balkan Light Cav.
I am aware of historical fluf, etc... , but would there be the option to boost Milan's attractiveness with another unit option? Any ideas?

Bob Stradling
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:46 am

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby Bob Stradling » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:55 pm

You could give them the 'Stylish' rule.

Your opponents have to pass a cohesion test to charge at or shoot a unit with the 'stylish' rule as they are in awe of the latest fashions being modelled by the Milanese Army and they don't want to spoil the new fabrics and patterns with weapon damage. (+2 for infantry and +1 for cavalry)

However the Milanese Army has to change their uniform patterns, colours, styles, etc every year, so the army has to be repainted between each battle you play! ;-)

Xarepunk
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby Xarepunk » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Nice thought ^^ Especially regarding the 'Milanese' full plate armour.
But I was rather looking for a more down to earth/game approach...

User avatar
lero
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Paris

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby lero » Thu May 14, 2020 12:10 am

For the Milan stilish rules, French should not be affected. Or maybe a cohesion test to talk about fashion and don't move a turn if failed ?

serenity
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:48 pm

Re: Later Italian City States

Postby serenity » Fri May 15, 2020 8:38 pm

In the Italian City States list under the Allies section says ‘Armies may have any other City State as allies’. You can have up to 33% which gives you access to some of the more ‘exotic’ cavalry under the guise of allied troops. You can’t take allies of allies of course.....so no Swiss or English Longbow!


Return to “Medieval Armies”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests