Javelins versus Slings

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Bitesyurr
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:18 am
Location: Portsmouth UK

Javelins versus Slings

Postby Bitesyurr » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:58 pm

Why would you ewver choose to use a javelin rather than a sing?

Historical accuracy requires it, but from a rules point ot view a Javelin provide no benefits over a sling, and has one third the range for the same cost.

Additionally, javalin armed open or close order units are paying more for the javelin that skirmishers, but actually get to shoot fewer bases.
Lancastrians
Ceasarian Romans (well a pile of boxes ATM)
Vikings (next year).

Always ready to roll a 12 for Cohesion!

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Wayne Richards
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: Javelins versus Slings

Postby Wayne Richards » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:56 pm

For skirmishing troops you will often find that in the army list it's a choice between equipping them with sling but no shield vs Javelin with shield.


Formed troops benefit from shooting from a narrower frontage. In calculating the costs the actual cost of the Javelin is the same for both skirmishers and formed troops. The additional benefits afforded to formed troops is what accounts for the points difference.

I've used javelin armed formed troops and they can sometimes earn you a momentum token or add the odd discouraged marker prior to combat.
Cheers W.

Bitesyurr
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:18 am
Location: Portsmouth UK

Re: Javelins versus Slings

Postby Bitesyurr » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:05 pm

Hi Wayne,
For skirmishing troops you will often find that in the army list it's a choice between equipping them with sling but no shield vs Javelin with shield.
Sorry but a skirmisher slingers (or archer) without shield is cheaper than a javelinman with a shield, and more cost effective. In the lists that I have looked at in choosing an army the choice has been (Gallic, Carthaginian, Late republican Roman) the choice was Javelin, sling or bow all with shield.

As for formed troops, they are paying double the cost for the javelin, and paying for a rear rank which cannot shoot, so their return on the points investmet is poor. The occasional lucky shot does not offset that. An 8 base unit armed with javelins would would get 4 shots, and need to need to roll above average in order to get 3 hits on an oppsing unit of similar size - and that does not take into account any save the other unit may get.

Regards

B
Lancastrians
Ceasarian Romans (well a pile of boxes ATM)
Vikings (next year).

Always ready to roll a 12 for Cohesion!

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Wayne Richards
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: Javelins versus Slings

Postby Wayne Richards » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm

Hi B, I was thinking of lists such as Lysimachid, Eumenid, Antigonid, Twilight of Greece, Seleucid, Ptolemaic etc regarding the option of sling/no shield vs. Jav with shield. You are right that where there is a choice of taking skirmishers with sling & shield vs. Javelin & Shield then the former is preferable. Where the choice is between Sling & no shield vs Javelin & Shield then it's a decision to be made on how you are going to use the troops in the game.

The points difference between formed and skirmish troops is a function of their base strength and other benefits rather than the cost of the weapon.

Yep I agree, I wouldn't rely on your javelin armed to deliver you piles of momentum tokens but if you are doing a list and have some spare points then it's an option to consider. Even one unsaved wound has a slim chance of bringing down a commander as I have experienced on more than one occasion.
Cheers W.

Bitesyurr
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:18 am
Location: Portsmouth UK

Re: Javelins versus Slings

Postby Bitesyurr » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:29 am

Hi Wayne,

The basis of my post was comparing bases with the same cost, and where one is noticably inferior to the other. Yes giving the javelins a shield does make them a marginally better close combat unit that, but that is not the same comparison, and they have to take several shots getting into range.

I feel that here we will have to agree to disagree. WIth my Caesarians I am fielding 2 units of 6 Illyrian warriors. I would rather spend the 2 points per base on an armour upgrade or an extra skirmishers unit. However that is a personal call and we all have to make our own decisions.

I suggest we stop here.

Regards

B.
Lancastrians
Ceasarian Romans (well a pile of boxes ATM)
Vikings (next year).

Always ready to roll a 12 for Cohesion!


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