Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

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andy
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Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby andy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:47 am

All, well I have played a few games of 2nd edition (which is a huge improvment on v1 IMHO) now and going through the rules (when updating the new QRS which is with Martin for review) I came across something that I think I have been playing wrong since day 1!

When shooting if you cause 10%/25% casulaties then the unit is discouraged/discouraged, take a cohesion test, no issues with this except that it states "round up". So for example when fielding an open order unit with 7 bases if you do 2 casulaties then I have always played its not 10% therefore unit not discouraged. Right!, nope thats wrong as 2 casulaties from 21 base strength is 9.5%, which you round up to 10% so a 7 base OO unit is discouraged when only 2 casulaties suffered!

This has a big impact for me as I typically run OO units (ie my Welsh) with 7 bases to get the "previously" thought of I need 3 casulaties to become discouraged! This means I wil need to run my Welsh in units of 8 bases, which will mean I loose one from army to uprate the remaining to 8 bases.

The table below (sorry its an image as forum is limited on formatting such tables) shows the various casulaties required for different troop types and unit sizes for both 10% and 25% casulaties. As you can see there are a few surprises across the different unit sizes where I have previously thought a unit would not be discouraged/require a cohesion test but does!
figue casualties.jpg
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Wayne Richards
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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby Wayne Richards » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:34 pm

Hi Andy, you are not alone in your interpretation, I don't think I've ever played it differently than you. Cheers W.

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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby andy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:26 am

Glad its just not me Wayne.

This rounding up for 10% loss only effects Infantry units with bases (unit strength) of:
Close Order: 8 bases (32), 11 bases (44) and for biblical period 13 bases (52 and 16 bases (64)
Open Order: 7 bases (21), 11 bases (33) and for biblical 14 bases (42)

And for 25% only effects two Open Order units 11 bases (33) and 15 bases (45)

So perhaps as this as been played since day 1 of swordpoint with people droping any fractions and requiring whole numbers to get the required 10% or 25%. We should remove the "round up" comment.

So in my example of an open order unit with 7 bases, 21 unit base strength then you would need to do more than 2.1 casualties i.e., 3 before the unit is discouraged.

Keeps the maths easy.

Martin - over to you for a decision

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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby MartinG » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 am

Should the government drop speed limits because people are incapable of adhering to them? Just asking........
"No one ever achieved anything without making a few mistakes along the way"

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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby andy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:02 pm

Sigh, you could have simply said "play as written". Just saying...

So people need to be aware of the odd times whena 9.x%/24.x% will result in a round up to 10%/25% and thus cause the relevant effect on target unit.

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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby MartinG » Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:35 am

Sigh, you could have just not bought up the whole thing, just complaining.......
I see no need to change the rules. I'm sure people will go on playing the way they want to play regardless.
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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby andy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:34 am

It was not a complaint, I fail to see how you could see it other than a request for clarification on how we should play.
I see no need to change the rules. I'm sure people will go on playing the way they want to play regardless.
This is well and good for friendly games but what about in a competiton - there should only one way to play this - especially as it could have a very significant impact on the game.

Before this discussion degenerates any further then lets close it and we will play the rule as written.

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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby MartinG » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:53 am

No you misunderstand, I was the one complaining, not you! sorry if it didn't come out clearly, I was continuing the "just saying, just asking" theme...

Yes my point was that the rules have never changed, and all parties have been happy with whatever way they have played it, and I'm sure they will continue to do so. But if anyone had bought up this point in a competition, I would always have ruled the way you have pointed out.
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Re: Momentum Tokens for 10% and 25 Casulaties

Postby andy » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:08 pm

Lol, all is clear now - thanks.

I guess now I have brought it up and its the correct way to play then I guess I will have to play it in all future games - and I suspect this will impact my game play more than my opponents.

Cheers
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andy


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