HYW English Army List Help

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Atheling
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HYW English Army List Help

Postby Atheling » Tue May 25, 2021 3:07 pm

Hi,

This is what I've got so far for the Swindon event for my HYW English, the army is based upon that of the force John of Bedford strung together for the Battle of Verneuil 1424.

As it's a tournament and given that due to Covid I have not even played a single game I would very much appreciate any help with the list I can get. In fact I'm quite desperate! :lol:

To my inexperienced eyes the army seems pretty thin on melee troops. Can you think of a way to remedy this? I'm not complaining but the 50% archers minimum makes it very difficult to fit in a decent number of melee units.

Ideally I'd like to squeeze in some Gascon mounted Men at Arms or at least some Foot Soldiers under the Men at Arms section..... :?:

Here is what I have so far (shields have been removed from the longbowmen):

ARMY: HYW English 1250 pts
PLAYER: Darrell Hindley
Profile
No. of Type Equipment A D C Base Upgrade Total ABP
Bases Points Points Points
1 King 2 10 50 0 50 2
4 Captain 2 2 20 80
6 Longbowmen Light Armour/Longbow/Hand & Half Sword 5 7 12 7 114 3
Riding Horses/Stakes/Open Order
6 Longbowmen Light Armour/Longbow/Hand & Half Sword 5 7 12 7 114 1
Riding Horses/Stakes/Open Order
6 Longbowmen Light Armour/Longbow/Hand & Half Sword 5 7 12 7 114 1
Riding Horses/Stakes/Open Order
6 Longbowmen Light Armour/Longbow/Hand & Half Sword 5 7 12 7 114 1
Riding Horses/Stakes/Open Order
6 Longbowmen Light Armour/Longbow/Hand & Half Sword 5 7 12 7 114 1
Riding Horses/Stakes/Open Order
6 Men at Arms Full Plate/Double Handed Weapon 4 8 26 5 186 3
Superior Fighters/Veteran/Riding Horses
6 Men at Arms Full Plate/Double Handed Weapon 4 8 26 5 186 3
Superior Fighters/Veteran/Riding Horses
6 Mounted Seasoned Archers Light Armour/Shield/Spear 4 8 20 0 120 2
Veteran
6 Gascon skirmishers Light Crossbow 6 6 30 1
Skirmishers
4 Gascon skirmishers Light Crossbow 6 6 24 1
Skirmishers


Cmnd Up to 6 5 Total 1246
Cavalry Up to 25% 0%%
Men at Arms up to 50% Up to 50% 30% AB points 13
Archers At least 50% 55% ABP 7
Allies Up to 25% Up to 20% 4% Breaks when lost 7

Bob Stradling
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Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Bob Stradling » Thu May 27, 2021 8:47 pm

Hi Darryl,

You may want to think about the combination of Riding Horses and Stakes. You can make a 4" move at the start of a game and then place your stakes, but if you come on riding horses I am not sure that when you get off that you can then place your stakes.

Whilst stakes can have benefits, they do tend to lock you into a very static defensive position where you may not be able to get the best arcs of fire to concentrate shooting without moving and losing the stakes. In the mean time your opponent may find it easier to concentrate fire on one end of the line without you being able to respond effectively without moving.

You may want to have an odd unit with stakes to help hold a flank or gap in the terrain, and you may want one unit with riding horses to give some mobility, but you may then find that is sufficient and that you have a few points for something else, like the heavy armour upgrade. Open order troops need all the help they can get so that they don't lose bases too quickly.

Bob

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Atheling
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Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Atheling » Sat May 29, 2021 8:24 am

Thanks for the reply Bob 8-)
You may want to think about the combination of Riding Horses and Stakes. You can make a 4" move at the start of a game and then place your stakes, but if you come on riding horses I am not sure that when you get off that you can then place your stakes.
This is odd but on reading the rules for Stakes again, you're right, it seems a 4" move is the limit. Looks like Riding Horses for most of the Longbowmen. Somewhat of a bummer as it looks as though it weakens the army a little(???)

I get the impression that this may be an oversight as it is well documented that English armies, even very early HYW armies of the likes of Edward III's Chevauchée and the Crecy Campaign, clearly took as much of an advantage of using the speed afforded to mounted infantry. This is well documented in Sumption, Trial by Battle: The Hundred Years War, Volume 1 if anyone reading this is is interested? I expect an amendment might be made in the HYW supplement to address this issue.
Whilst stakes can have benefits, they do tend to lock you into a very static defensive position where you may not be able to get the best arcs of fire to concentrate shooting without moving and losing the stakes. In the mean time your opponent may find it easier to concentrate fire on one end of the line without you being able to respond effectively without moving.
This highlights very well the problem I have. Due to the pandemic I have not had the chance to play any games at all vis a vis no development of tactics etc. I'm pretty much going to be entering the Swindon even "blind" so things could get interesting :lol: Having said that, the opposite is true too; if you want to get into the nitty gritty of a rule system a tournament is a good place to learn. I'm expecting to be doing a lot of "learning", mostly from the esteemed position of sitting the "bottom" table, the expectant the receipt of a wooden kitchen utensil come the end of the weekend :lol: :lol:
You may want to have an odd unit with stakes to help hold a flank or gap in the terrain, and you may want one unit with riding horses to give some mobility, but you may then find that is sufficient and that you have a few points for something else, like the heavy armour upgrade. Open order troops need all the help they can get so that they don't lose bases too quickly.
So, as well as dropping the Stakes on some units; lower the number of troops in the army by taking Seasoned Archers who can take Heavy Armour (Longbowmen cannot). Possibly make one unit Stubborn too to protect a flank?

Bob Stradling
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:46 am

Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Bob Stradling » Sun May 30, 2021 9:03 pm

I didn't have the list in front of me when I responded previously and had forgotten it was only the seasoned archers that had the heavy armour upgrade. I would not take them just to have the heavy armour - they are already expensive for the amount of shooting they have. If I did have one unit riding horses it would most probably be seasoned archers.

Personally I am not worried about stubborn at 3 points a base I feel it is hugely over priced for what it does for you, there may be other dissenting views, but I prefer not to be in a situation where I lose a combat by 4 or 5 (pretty difficult in line of battle!) although it has been known to happen :o

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Atheling
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Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Atheling » Mon May 31, 2021 11:52 am

I didn't have the list in front of me when I responded previously and had forgotten it was only the seasoned archers that had the heavy armour upgrade. I would not take them just to have the heavy armour - they are already expensive for the amount of shooting they have. If I did have one unit riding horses it would most probably be seasoned archers.

Personally I am not worried about stubborn at 3 points a base I feel it is hugely over priced for what it does for you, there may be other dissenting views, but I prefer not to be in a situation where I lose a combat by 4 or 5 (pretty difficult in line of battle!) although it has been known to happen :o
Thanks Bob- appreciated old bean.

There's the "Must be one base of Men at Arms for every three bases of Archers" problem too, (from the errata), which limits what can be purchased.

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Andyjp
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Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Andyjp » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:25 pm

I'm pulling out my hair (and i already have a severe lack) trying to come up with a English long bow army that I like.
I'm not that experienced at sword Point as i've not played mush in years but have had a few games recently.

So for my 2 penny worth

Your 6 base open order units will quickly lose bases, which will lead to you giving out momentum tokens quickly and having to take a test!
I'd increase the size and take the stakes, if you are facing knights you'll need them; without the stakes units of shock cavalry Knights will ride right over you with less trouble than a hire car and a speed bump.

If you are up against infantry, use the free stake movement how you want, then abandon them and move where you want.
Cheers
Andy

"Religious wars are basically people killing each other over who has the better imaginary friend" -Napoleon Bonaparte

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Atheling
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Re: HYW English Army List Help

Postby Atheling » Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:14 pm

I'm pulling out my hair (and i already have a severe lack) trying to come up with a English long bow army that I like.
I'm not that experienced at sword Point as i've not played mush in years but have had a few games recently.
You're in the same boat as me only mine is leaking :lol: I haven't even been able to get a game in at all :evil:
Your 6 base open order units will quickly lose bases, which will lead to you giving out momentum tokens quickly and having to take a test!
I'd increase the size and take the stakes, if you are facing knights you'll need them; without the stakes units of shock cavalry Knights will ride right over you with less trouble than a hire car and a speed bump.

If you are up against infantry, use the free stake movement how you want, then abandon them and move where you want.
I've got the Stakes in the list. I'm not so sure about upping the number of bases in a unit of Longbowmen as that might well mean a unit having to fight two units (due to the width) which could be very nasty.


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